Let's talk about...Trek!

Tupperfan

Forgot to bring booze...
Sep 16, 2009
239
1
0
The bush, Canada
#1
Hey guys,

One of the few times I would actually talk about Trek if TWeb still existed. I'm still debating putting that one with the freaks at TCore, but I'm not sure I want to receive the excess love and 20 GIFs for every Prometheus decent answer. So here it goes:

I introduced the girlfriend to a bunch of Sci-Fi, including BSG and Firefly and she loves the genre, even exploring it on her own (yup, we're that kind of couple). Recently, she has expressed interest in Trek and if I'd like to watch it with her, I'm not quite sure I want, and she would endure, to watch every single Trek episode.

So I was thinking between 10 and 15 episodes of TOS and TNG, probably DS9's full run (she loved BSG so I think it would work), and 10 of each for VOY and ENT (maybe). So here's the question:

Which episodes you think should make the list for every series, keeping in mind we'll watch every movie (with the possibility to ignore maybe one or two) and that some episodes have some important backstory for said movies (Khan, Borg)? Watching pilots are a given.

Oh and on a side note, we're going to the Just for Laugh gala hosted by Patrick Stewart next Wednesday in Montreal. Jealous, suckers?
 

Tupperfan

Forgot to bring booze...
Sep 16, 2009
239
1
0
The bush, Canada
#2
Well, I posted this on Tcore as well and the first post is already fucking idiotic.

"Sounds like she already has a couple of episodes in mind -- otherwise it wouldn't have sparked her interest in begin with. Find out what those episodes are and watch them with her. Then find other good episodes from the same series she's interested in.."

I swear, this sounds like a shitty sex advice column on discovering your partner's fantasies.

Immediately regretting it.
 
Jun 13, 2006
547
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#3
TOS:
Where No Man Has Gone Before
Balance of Terror
The City on the Edge of Forever
The Naked Time
Dagger of the Mind
The Conscience of the King
The Galileo Seven
Court Martial
Space Seed
Errand of Mercy
The Devil in the Dark
Amok Time
Mirror Mirror
The Doomsday Machine
Journey to Babel
The Trouble with Tribbles
The Immunity Syndrome
A Private Little War
By Any Other Name
The Enterprise Incident
Day of the Dove
For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky
The Tholian Web
Whom Gods Destroy
All Our Yesterdays

Admittedly that's more than 10-15, but I tried to pare it down to what felt like an "Essential TOS" list that really hit on the major themes of the series and spotlighted the major characters and their relationships. If she enjoys those, you can dive into the rest. Even the "bad" episodes are generally good, campy fun. The exception being "And the Children Shall Lead," which is just dreary.

As a bonus, I'd consider adding the following TAS episodes:
Beyond the Farthest Star
Yesteryear
One of Our Planets is Missing
The Time Trap
The Eye of the Beholder
Albatross
How Sharper Than a Serpent's Tooth
The Counter-Clock Incident
 
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Jun 13, 2006
547
2
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#4
TNG:
Encounter at Farpoint
Where No One Has Gone Before
The Battle
Datalore
The Arsenal of Freedom
Elementary, Dear Data
Loud as a Whisper
Q Who
The Measure of a Man
Peak Performance
The Enemy
Deja Q
Yesterday's Enterprise
The Most Toys
Sarek
The Best of Both Worlds
Family
Brothers
The Wounded
The Nth Degree
The Drumhead
Half a Life
Darmok
Ensign Ro
Silicon Avatar
The Game
Unification
A Matter of Time (mostly because of Matt Frewer)
I, Borg
The Inner Light
Relics
The Quality of Life
Chain of Command
The Chase
Gambit
The Pegasus
Lower Decks
Journey's End
Preemptive Strike
All Good Things

Once again, more than requested, but that should at least be a start for a "best of" TNG list.
 
Jun 13, 2006
547
2
0
#5
Voyager:
Caretaker
Meld
Dreadnought
Death Wish
Deadlock
Tuvix
The Q and the Grey
Distant Origin
Worst Case Scenario
Scorpion
Year of Hell
Message in a Bottle
Timeless
Infinite Regress
Course: Oblivion
Equinox
Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy
Critical Care
Workforce
Endgame
 

Bean

The Awesome One
Jan 1, 1970
5,243
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cheese.com
#6
TNG:
Encounter at Farpoint
Where No One Has Gone Before
The Battle
Datalore
The Arsenal of Freedom
Elementary, Dear Data
Loud as a Whisper
Q Who
The Measure of a Man
Peak Performance
The Enemy
Deja Q
Yesterday's Enterprise
The Most Toys
Sarek
The Best of Both Worlds
Family
Brothers
The Wounded
The Nth Degree
The Drumhead
Half a Life
Darmok
Ensign Ro
Silicon Avatar
The Game
Unification
A Matter of Time (mostly because of Matt Frewer)
I, Borg
The Inner Light
Relics
The Quality of Life
Chain of Command
The Chase
Gambit
The Pegasus
Lower Decks
Journey's End
Preemptive Strike
All Good Things
I mostly agree with this with some minor alterations. Mostly to streamline it.

Remove:
The Arsenal of Freedom
Loud as a Whisper
The Nth Degree
Half a Life
The Game
I, Borg
Gambit (What is wrong with you Sam??)

Add:
Skin of Evil
Data's Day - It's a great episode, and we get some backstory on O'Brien and Keiko for DS9
 

iamspenagain

Cymro's Bitch
Jan 1, 1970
538
3
0
31
The Nast 'Nati, Ohio
#7
Yeah, Gambit is stupid. But it was also obviously written and directed to be stupid, so I think of it as a satire, poking fun at contemporary over-the-top syndicated sci-fi shows, so many of them about space pirates searching for magical ancient artifacts. I'm not saying it's one of those you can watch over and over again, but if you view it with that attitude, it stands on its own two feet, although it's still teetering on the brink of collapse in its own drunken stupor.
 

Bean

The Awesome One
Jan 1, 1970
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#8
Even if I agreed with that description of the episode, and I don't, it's still not one someone just getting into Trek should be subjected to.

I mean, unless Tup hates his girfriend... in that case..
 

iamspenagain

Cymro's Bitch
Jan 1, 1970
538
3
0
31
The Nast 'Nati, Ohio
#9
Its goofy fun doesn't last past the first viewing, and even then, it doesn't work for contemporary audiences. I probably wouldn't let a n00b watch Stewart chew the scenery, either, and if I implied it's anything more than goofy mediocrity, that wasn't really what I meant.

Really, I think it was supposed to be godawful campy, and it achieved that goal pretty remarkably.

Edit: That isn't to say Gambit fits in with the rest of the series, because it doesn't.
 
Jun 13, 2006
547
2
0
#10
Its goofy fun doesn't last past the first viewing, and even then, it doesn't work for contemporary audiences. I probably wouldn't let a n00b watch Stewart chew the scenery, either, and if I implied it's anything more than goofy mediocrity, that wasn't really what I meant.

Really, I think it was supposed to be godawful campy, and it achieved that goal pretty remarkably.

Edit: That isn't to say Gambit fits in with the rest of the series, because it doesn't.
Watching Stewart and Frakes chew the scenery and spit it at each other is awesome. :jerry:
 
Jun 13, 2006
547
2
0
#11
I mostly agree with this with some minor alterations. Mostly to streamline it.

Remove:
The Arsenal of Freedom
Loud as a Whisper
The Nth Degree
Half a Life
The Game
I, Borg
Gambit (What is wrong with you Sam??)

Add:
Skin of Evil
Data's Day - It's a great episode, and we get some backstory on O'Brien and Keiko for DS9
Agreed with adding "Data's Day." I've never really liked "Skin of Evil," IMHO it's far inferior to the others you listed as removals, especially "Louid as a Whisper," "The Nth Degree," and "Half a Life."
 

Bean

The Awesome One
Jan 1, 1970
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#12
Skin of Evil is a terrible episode in comparison to the rest on the list, but it's an intergral part of TNG. I don't understand how you can have Yesterdays Enterprise on the list without it.
 
Jun 13, 2006
547
2
0
#13
Skin of Evil is a terrible episode in comparison to the rest on the list, but it's an intergral part of TNG. I don't understand how you can have Yesterdays Enterprise on the list without it.
Easy. Tasha's in a couple of the episodes I listed. Before getting to "Yesterday's Enterprise"...hell, before getting to the second season, just say "there was a first season episode where Tasha died stupidly. It sucked, so we skipped it, but that's why she's not around now." Or maybe just watch the funeral portions of "Skin of Evil," which are pretty much the only non-awful parts of that episode.
 
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Jun 13, 2006
547
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#14
Thanks to BBCA and insomnia, I caught the second half of "Skin of Evil," as well as all of "We'll Always Have Paris." The latter episode is so far superior to the former in every respect, from the script to the acting to the F/X, that it's hard to believe they're from the same series.
 

Tupperfan

Forgot to bring booze...
Sep 16, 2009
239
1
0
The bush, Canada
#15
Skin is awful. I'd definitely just say she died stupidly in an awful episode. Data's Day is a definite one for me though.

As for Gambit, I agree it's lame, but maybe because it's one of the first episodes I actually watched of TNG, it has a special place in my heart. Not sure it's enough to get the GF to endure this two-parter, though...
 
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Bean

The Awesome One
Jan 1, 1970
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cheese.com
#16
Even as a die hard TNG fan, I have a really hard time making it through Gambit. It's just really really fucking stupid.

I can even see what they were going for, trying to show us the darker side of life in the TNG era. More of a "civillian" view on things, but it was just too silly for me to take it seriously.

Honestly, Skin isn't as bad as what you guys are probably remembering. It wasn't great by any means, but it wasn't anywhere near the worst of what the first two seasons had to offer.
 

Bean

The Awesome One
Jan 1, 1970
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cheese.com
#18
You're not wrong. The content itself makes for an acceptable TNG two parter. So yeah, based on the story alone, it's not worthy of the thrashing it gets.

Now, when you compare the budget for the movie with the average budget for a TNG two parter, and then you compare the production time, resources, guest actors etc.. this is where it becomes a travesty. An utterly unforgiveable pile of shit that deserves all of the hatred, vitriol, spite, and bile it receives. A hulking mass of mediocrity that eclipses Nemesis in it's irreverance for its own source material. NEMESIS!

Edit: I tried to leave it at that, but I just couldn't...

Even Nemesis at least TRIED to be more than the crap it turned out to be. They TRIED to make it an epic movie on the scale of TWOK. They utterly failed, but they put the effort in. They at least had the vision in mind. You can watch Nemesis and at least see where they wanted it to be more, regardless of how crappy those ideas translated on screen.

Where Insurrection fails the most is right there. It doesn't even attempt to be more than childish jokes (boobs jokes? Really?), cliched story ideas and an ethical dilemma that is so far from being an actual dilemma that even Hitler could have pieced it together. With characters as generic as I've ever seen (A rogue Starfleet admiral anyone??) and villains that were about as appealing as the Remans, the movie doesn't try one single thing that, even succesfully executed, would have made it anything more than what we got. A placeholder. Yet more video wallpaper in the hey day of Rick Bermans middle of the road interpretation of Trek.
 
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Jun 13, 2006
547
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#19
"Gambit" is just good cheesy fun with Picard and Riker chewing the hell out of the mercenary ship and spitting it at each other in every scene.

Having recently re-watched part of "Skin," it was actually *worse* than I remembered. "Paris" held up well, though.
 

iamspenagain

Cymro's Bitch
Jan 1, 1970
538
3
0
31
The Nast 'Nati, Ohio
#20
You're absolutely right, of course. I can partially forgive some of the lackluster scenery, seeing as the original Ba'ku village was an elaborate full-scale set and was destroyed by weather, necessitating the reuse of Generic TNG Village #6, but I can't forgive the boob and zit jokes, I can't forgive Worf's random reentrance, I can't forgive the pointless romantic angles between Riker/Troi and Picard/Decently Attractive but Forgettable Cougar. And I can't forgive the fact that they extended the runtime by having the Ba'ku go from these caves here to those caves over there because fuckall, who cares why, just do it.

I think the moral non-dilemma would have been greatly more muddled and made much more interesting had the movie shown some of the ravages the Dominion War was causing instead of nearly pretending it didn't exist, which would have been as simple as opening the film with a horrific battle scene. Make the metagenic technojunk something the Federation desperately needs and suddenly he's no longer Admiral Douchenugget, he's a guy who honestly believes he's doing the right thing.

But again, I've been rewatching some of the better episodes of TNG lately and even though INS doesn't carry its weight as a movie, watching it as a TV show helped me actually enjoy it, which is the first time I've managed to actually do that.